Hikers Summiting Peaks with their Wheelchairs

[Music]

LINDSEY WELLS, HOST: From KVMR and in partnership with FREED, this is Disability Rap.

DANIEL WILSON: Mobility and moving around in a wheelchair can be challenging at times, but once you've especially scaled a mountain, or you've gone through some really epic hikes, it really feels a great achievement, and you feel alive. 

WELLS: Today, two trailblazers on hiking treacherous terrain with their wheelchairs and teams of support volunteers. 

CHRIS LAYNE: This community is like no other community I've been a part of. Just people who are trying to meet other people, who want to be outside. Instead of being in their house doing nothing on the weekends, they're able to get up and get out and get hiking.

WELLS: That’s all coming up on Disability Rap. Stay tuned.

[Music]

CARL SIGMOND, HOST: Welcome to Disability Rap. I'm Carl Sigmond with Lindsey Wells. 

WELLS: Today, we are joined by two outdoor enthusiasts and avid hikers, Chris Layne and Daniel Wilson. Both Chris and Daniel are wheelchair users. They work with support teams and use specialized equipment to hike trails that are anything but wheelchair accessible. Chris has hiked up Mt. Elbert, the highest peak in the Colorado Rockies. It’s over 14,000 feet. Daniel has traversed rugged trails in the Lake District National Park in Cumbria, England, which is a UNESCO World Heritage site.  

Chris acquired her disability after a fall while hiking in her home state of Colorado in 2016, when a spinal cord injury left her paralyzed from the chest down. She went on to win the Ms. Wheelchair Colorado title in 2020, and she is both an active athlete and advocate for accessibility and inclusion in the outdoors and everywhere else.  

Daniel became paralyzed after complications from spinal surgery following a fall down an escalator. After recovering, he became active in the British charity organization Sportability, which supports paralyzed athletes’ participation in sports – from archery and quad biking, to tennis and flying light aircraft. Now an experienced adaptive hiker, he competed in the Race The Sun fundraiser in the Lake District National Park. 

We recorded our interview with Chris and Daniel in March, as Daniel was preparing to hike the West Highland Way trail in Scotland. Just this week, Daniel successfully completed that trail, along with ten support volunteers from around the world. Daniel is the first person in a wheelchair known to have successfully completed this historic 96-mile trail. He made the treck as a fundraiser for BackUp, a UK organization supporting people with spinal cord injuries. 

SIGMOND: Well Chris Layne, and Daniel Wilson, welcome to Disability Rap. It's great to have, both of you, with us. I wanted to begin, by asking you: what draws you to nature, and being in the outdoors? And Chris, let's begin with you. 

LAYNE: As an avid enthusiast of the outdoors my whole life, hiking and biking and just an athlete in general, I just enjoyed camping and being outside, especially living here in the Rocky Mountains. There's so much beauty in everything that we have in our own backyard. Part of me was doing 14ers, which is mountains, 14,000 or higher, 14,000 feet, which I had accomplished prior to October 28 of 2016. That was the day that we were going to celebrate my son's birthday. I said, "What do you want to do?" He was an avid outdoors person and loved hiking the trails and doing lots of outdoors events and things. Very adventurous. He said, "A group of us are going to go do some rock climbing." I said, "Can I go with you?" 

He's like, "Yes, sure." I took a chance to go up and be with my son on his birthday and do some hiking and watch them do some rock climbing. It's just what I enjoy and what we enjoy together. That was the day that changed my life. It was the day that I was reaching up for his hand and my feet were slipping, and I ended up slipping 80 feet down Clear Creek Canyon 8 stories down. That's where I had my accident, October 28 of 2016. Broke my back, became a paraplegic, T6 level, incomplete paraplegic, and a wheelchair user for the rest of my life. That's my role up until my accident of my outdoor adventure. We'll talk a little bit more about what I've done ever since then for the last seven and a half years. 

WELLS: Thank you for that. Daniel, can you briefly tell us what draws you to nature and being in the outdoors? 

WILSON: What draws me to nature? I've always been active before my injury. I was 30 years old when I was paralyzed. It's something that I really didn't want to miss out on, and I wanted to continue to be more active and more physical. There's so much beautiful nature outside. I do feel it's relaxing and more of an achievement. Mobility and moving around in a wheelchair can be challenging at times, but once you've especially scaled a mountain, or you've gone through some really epic hikes, it really feels a great achievement. You feel alive. You feel more alive doing outdoor hiking, sports and being in and involved in nature. I didn't want to miss out on that, and I look to find it wherever I can. 

WELLS: This question is for Chris. It seems that you were an avid hiker before your spinal cord injury in 2016, and you touched on that a little bit. Did you even know that adaptive hiking was a thing? If not, at what point after your injury did you realize, "Hey, I can get back out there on these trails"? 

LAYNE: I did not know adaptive hiking was a thing. I didn't need it. It was one of those hidden challenges that I wouldn't have known about until I became a wheelchair user and paralyzed myself. I actually found out about it, I was watching the news, and there was a foundation. There is a foundation here, The Lockwood Foundation, who took a friend of mine, and I was watching her summit Mount Elbert. This was just a year after my accident in-- I'd say 2017. As soon as I saw that, that is where I became aware of, "Oh my gosh, I can do it. I can get back up on the mountains and go hiking again." 

I immediately contacted the foundation and said, "I want to be a part of this. I want to hike again. I never thought I would be able to hike again." Immediately, they invited me to be involved, and I've been involved with them, the Lockwood Foundation, ever since then. I'm a huge ambassador aboard. I like to get others to know and bring awareness and advocate for anybody with any disability to know that they can get out and hike again. 

WELLS: Daniel, I'm going to ask you the same question. Did you know about this adaptive hiking before your injury? 

WILSON: No. Not at all. Before I was injured, I didn't really have much knowledge of adaptive sports at all. I heard about the adaptive hiking through Back Up. Annually, each year they do a big fundraiser to go up Mount Snowdon in Wales, which is the second highest mountain in the UK. They do that every year. I was invited along to participate in that. That's how I saw and found all the other adaptive wheelchairs, which they've done. The wheelchair that I've made, we've actually built that ourself to fit me and to suit my style of the ascent. No, I hadn't heard about it at all, but then once I saw how the wheelchairs are, I thought, "That's an amazing piece of kit, and I want one, and I want to do it." So I grabbed it with both hands.

SIGMOND: And that's a perfect segue, into our next question. I'll begin with Daniel, and then go back to Chris. But for our listeners, who may not be familiar, with this equipment, can you just describe, it for us? And then describe, the team of support people, that you bring with you. 

WILSON: The equipment I've got is actually my very first chair that I got. I was paralyzed in 2015, and my first wheelchair I've kept in the shed, and I've taken the front casters off. I've welded two 5-foot poles coming out the front, so like a sedan setup, if you like. The poles will come out of the side of the cushions straight out in front. There's another 2 poles that come at 45 degrees off the backrest. When I lean my chair back to go into a back full balance, if there's a larger rock, the front poles will lift up. I'll have two people on the front, on the poles, two people on the back, generally, for most of the track. 

When a big rock, it comes up, I'll lean the chair back into a backward balanced position. The poles at 45 degrees on the backrest perfectly on my teammates, their shoulders. Then the poles at the front will raise up just above their waist, so give them the perfect comfortable lifting position. Then for the big deadlift where I've got to go right up the rocks, it's a complete lift. I stable and balance myself. Then once the chair is back on the ground, the other side, it's to be pulled, like a tuktuk sort of thing, like a sedan chair. They'll stand on the side and pull me through. I'll have a team of 10 able-bodied people, it's standard. 

When I've done Snowdon three times, and I've done Helvellyn and Skiddaw in the Lake District last year, there's always going to be 10 people to a team, 4 people generally around the chair all the time. When it gets really steep, I've got climbing ropes, which will fix underneath the seat. They'll run about 7 foot in front of the chair itself. The poles are 5 foot, there's another few extra feet, and then they'll have a harness, and the ropes are strapped to their back like a husky sledge. There'll be an extra two people pulling on ropes when it gets really steep. Then the same on the descent, coming down, the ropes will be taken off and kicked to the back of the chair, and then they'll be anchored to that rope to slow it down. 

Mountains over here in the UK are usually covered in slate or shale, it's called. So it’s broken up bits of slate, so it can be quite slippery. To keep constant tension on the ropes going down to slow it down, otherwise I'll be freewheeling all the way to the bottom uncontrollably. That's the standard now which we use nearly every time.  

SIGMOND: Great, and I encourage people, to go to our website, disabilityrap.org, where we will link, to some of your great videos. But Chris, please tell us, about your equipment. 

LAYNE: I'd love to tell you about our equipment and my team or our team. This is a foundation, and it's all volunteers, and we use a TrailRider. There's four TrailRiders. It's a piece of equipment that is bought out of Canada. It has a single wheel, but it has the contraption of a longer metal frame. Similar to what Daniel was saying is there's two handles in the front, and there's handles in the back with a brake. If you think of a wheelbarrow but a seated chair, a big, long metal chair on a single wheel, you can get over big boulders and rocks and pretty much anywhere in nature that you can go, this chair can go. 

It's pretty amazing that the seat, and it's very comfortable. Sometimes it's just one in the front and one in the back, pushing and pulling. When it gets real treacherous or real steep or over big boulders, as we are getting to the top of Mount Elbert, they would actually pick me up and a team would just carry me. Just to get up to Mount Elbert for one rider, it took 70 volunteers, and we were having so much fun. It's definitely a very good close-knit outdoor adventure team sport for those of us that can't walk the trails. They get to sit and be pushed and pulled up the trails. This is something we get to do about every weekend through the summer and fall on Saturdays and throughout the whole Denver metro area. 

It's comfortable, it's safe. We were descending Mount Elbert at 14,438 feet, the highest peak in Colorado. The third highest in the country. There's a lot of braking that they put the brake on. It's a really good chair, very stable and made very well. It's called the TrailRider, and there's four of them now that we can take four hikers when we want. Usually, about 10 minimum is what we like on a regular Saturday afternoon on a not-so-steep treacherous trail. That works out pretty good. We usually get a lot more volunteers because it's just a group of outdoor enthusiasts. We can just spend time together, and we love to network and just meet new people that enjoy hiking.  

SIGMOND: Yeah, and again, this is a great segue, because each of you, spoke about these teams of volunteers, who come with you, to support you, and how much fun, you are all having. I imagine, there's a lot, of reciprocity, and community, that is built, because of each of you, and what you are endeavoring to do, for Chris, every weekend. So can you talk, a bit more, about the community aspect? Chris, and then Daniel. 

LAYNE: Yes. Absolutely. This community is like no other community I've been a part of. Just people who are trying to meet other people, who want to be outside. Instead of being in their house doing nothing on the weekends, they're able to get up and get out and get hiking. That's what's so great about it, is we just had a really wonderful hike just this past Saturday, and there were eight new hikers, new volunteers that had never even heard of this, and they learned it through social media, through the Lockwood Foundation. They're like, "We had such a great time." I'm like, "You're going to be back, right?" "Oh, absolutely. We're going to be back." It just spreads like wildfire. 

Once you get out and do things with people of the same interest, it's a huge community builder of people. We all leave there smiling and wishing we can just hike all day together and be together, but it's more than that. It's helping those of us that can't walk the trails as well and to teach others the adaptive ways of doing things in life. When I share my story, it really brings awareness to the volunteers that would never even imagine what it's like for a person with a disability not being able to hike the trails, walk the trails, go up the trails. It's not only a community wonderful thing for that, it's education, it's bringing awareness, it's telling stories along the way during our hike for hours. There's so much more involved than just the hike. 

SIGMOND: And Daniel, what about you, and the community, that has sprung up, to support you? 

WILSON: It has. It has been a big community. I don't have a group of 10 regular friends which can all get the same time off work and the same commitments to actually have a team of 10 regular people to do these challenges. When I've done these Snowdon Push for Back Up in Wales, that second highest amount in the UK, the Back Up are the second biggest spinal charity in the UK, if not the biggest, and they've got a lot of corporate investors which make their donations. With their contributions that they make, they come along, and they want to help and volunteer. I put myself up there to be their wheelchair user. During the race, I actually use a lot of corporate support along the way. 

Now, when we were doing this one in Scotland, this, again, is to raise funds for the spinal charity, Back Up, and we've put down on the local Facebook West Highland Way page asking for help for helpers, for volunteers to come and join our team. This is a challenge that we want to do but don't have the adequate numbers. I live down in the south of England, so it's going to take me about eight hours just to get up to Scotland and do this. The community that's come out and that have put themselves forward has been amazing. Really, really surprised. We've had messages and emails, inundated for the last three months asking say, "What are the dates? When are you there? We live locally. We'll come down, and we'll help out." 

It's been really heartwarming. It's been really, really lovely. Everyone is so supportive. They all want the same thing. They want to get me and my chair to the end of this trail to be the first one. It feels really, really nice, and I'm quite surprised by it. There's a strong community out there. Just got to find it. Just go look for it. They come and seek you out, keep caught up. Advertise and tell people that you want to do these things. People that want to help, they do. They throw themselves at it as well. That's the commitment and the help that you want as well. Really good, it has. Very surprising, very supportive. 

WELLS: The next question is for the both of you. It sounds like each hike is a major production. Going along with what you just said, Chris and Daniel, first for Chris and then Daniel, can you describe your planning process, coordinating not just your own needs but the process of getting your support team and all that entails? 

LAYNE: My very dear friend, Jeffrey Lockwood, he's the one that founded and started the Lockwood Foundation to be able to do this about five and a half, six years ago. Pretty much since I've been involved as well. He's taken upon this and rolled with it literally to put it out on Facebook. It's social media that gets the volunteers to meet, and they'll see the trails, they'll see the timeline and the events and the dates, and we don't know who's going to show up. There usually is enough, many people showing up, whether it's the adaptive hiker or the volunteers themselves that are there to help support. 

As long as there's an adaptive hiker and the volunteers, we take off on the trails, and it depends on how many, there's usually two chairs rolling. If there's more adaptive hikers, then we'll get three chairs rolling as long as we have the support team to be able to do it safely because it's all about safety. I have some video and some things on my Ms. Wheelchair Colorado Facebook and Instagram as well to see some of the events that we've been doing especially this last one. 

WELLS: Thank you, Chris. Can I also bring in you, Daniel, for the same question? 

WILSON: Yes. When the preparation for Snowdon, that's been done many of times. They do that every year. Back Up do that run every year. There's at least 10 different teams. 10 different wheelchair teams are going up and down there every year minimum. That's a well-trodden route. Everyone knows where they're going and what to expect. When I went to the Lake District last year and done the two mountains in one day, that's never been done by a wheelchair user before. I had to get the local knowledge or the people that have done these particular mountains before to ask what are the best routes. 

Planning the smoothest, safest, I wouldn't say easiest because it's never easy, but whatever is the safest, the most achievable route. Then I have to get the team, put the advert out, tell them that, "This is the challenge I want to do, who wants to be involved?" The ones that I've done it before, I ask their experience on the mountain, what routes did they go, what difficulties are we looking to come up against. I try and Google Earth to zoom in, get a satellite view of the mountain to see if there's any lakes that we need to go around or some ditches, barbed wire, fencing, anything like that. 

I try and plan as much as I can to make it achievable without spoiling the surprise of it. You know, just sorting it out and trying to find a plan to actually conquer it on the day because half of the problem solving on the mountain is half the fun for me. I still want that excitement which any hiker would have. It's completely uncharted territory for a wheelchair. Once I've found a relatively comfortable route, then it's the logistics of how am I going to get my chair, the baggage, all these 10 people, who most of the time have never met each other before, they've never met me. I don't know them, they don't know me, they don't know each other. 

It's telephoning everybody. We've actually got a gentleman on our team coming from Colorado, flying to Scotland to meet me. I'm driving up from England to Scotland, and we're all descending. We've actually got a guy coming over, which we've met skiing in Winter Park, Colorado. I think he lives locally to there, so he's flying over. I'll be telephoning everybody, trying to make sure we all meet the same time, same place. I'll ask how they're feeling about it, what their experience. It's a lot of telephone calls between everybody. I just try and reassure it, give them the general plan, and that's it. 

LAYNE: Safety is the number one when it comes to hiking any high mountains. There's a lot of planning in this. For me, altitude, I was worried about altitude sickness, not been up that high in a long while. I have a baclofen pump, which is a medicine pump implanted in my belly for my spasms. It says it's not recommended to go above 8,000 feet. I'm going almost 14,500 feet. My safety was, "Do I do this? Do I risk this? I know it shouldn't go above 8,000, but I've already lived in it, 5,280." I've gone up 11,000 feet without any problems. I risked it. Then the planning is the team at the Lockwood Foundation, they are mountaineers. 

They were looking at the weather every half hour, every hour. We actually had to start our hike at 5:30 in the morning, two hours earlier, because the storms were going to be moving in that earlier than usually expected or anticipated. Everything along the whole route, it was a three-day hike up to the Mount Elbert. Everything's looked at. Everybody's made sure, "Are you feeling okay?" I'm a nurse. I've been a nurse for 30 years. "Is anybody getting the headaches or the altitude?" Lots and lots and lots of planning, as Daniel said, to make it a safe and a good summit to the highest peak. 

Every caution is taken, every precaution known. There's a lot of planning. This year was the fifth year that the Lockwood Foundation has summited an adaptive hiker to the top of Mount Elbert. I've known them all. So it's been very exciting. Lots of planning.

SIGMOND: Hey Chris, I just want, to jump in here. You said, Mt. Elbert was, a three-day hike. Is that what I heard? So are you sleeping, out on trail? 

LAYNE: Yes. It is a three-day. The team goes up on a Friday, and they take all the equipment, all the tents, we set up camp. That's Friday. There's probably 15 volunteers that take the food, everything up to treeline, which is 11,700 feet. Then they come back down. Then Saturday morning, the adaptive hiker myself, we go and we meet the whole team. All the volunteers, so over 70 people had met on Saturday. 

Those that were there Friday then more people are coming in. Then we hiked up to 11,700, which is right at treeline. We sleep overnight. I got to sleep in a tent for the first time in seven and a half years. I got to camp out. It was amazing. The weather was good. The tents are set up. We have a bonfire, we have guitars and eat dinner. Then the next morning, based on the weather outlook, we plan our hike accordingly. We had to start when it was dark this year at 5:30 in the morning. We had our headlamps on, and it was amazing to see 70 people or more going up the trails with lights on. We got to see the sunrise come up. It was majestic. It was the absolute most beautiful day. 

It only took us three and a half hours. I had such a strong team to get 3,000 vertical miles up to the top of Mount Elbert. That's unheard of, especially with an adaptive hiker to be able to hike that distance and that elevation incline in three and a half hours. We did it. Then had we had left 30 minutes later, we wouldn't have been able to summit because that storm rolled in so fast. That's what people have to understand is the weather is unpredictable. You get caught in it, you could get hypothermic, you can have all kinds of problems coming down, exhaustion, fatigue. 

It was just a beautiful hike. For me, it was two days. It was an overnight. For the whole team, it's a three-day event. It takes a lot of strategic planning and everything to get equipment and tents and food and everything. We got our water out of the river, and we filtered the water. This team is pretty incredible. That's something you can start, Daniel. 

WILSON: Yes. I love that. That sounds amazing. Your mountain's a lot higher than what we've got over here in the UK. 

LAYNE: It doesn't matter. 

WILSON: No, it's better. I absolutely love that. That sounded amazing. I may have to come over and join you. 

LAYNE: Yes, please do. I got an adaptable house. 

WILSON: Perfect. There you go. Accommodation, TrailRider ready, tents already set up on the mountain, I hear, you haven't got to set up your own tents. That's nice. That sounds luxurious. Love that. 

LAYNE: Yes, the team sets them up that Friday night, so they're ready and prepared when we get there. 

WILSON: Perfect. This trek I'm doing this year in the West Highland Way, it's not mountainous, it's a 96-mile trek, but it's across relatively flat ground. It's not on the mountain. It's like a hiking trail. We're going to be staying in tents, but I did treat myself to the glamp in the huts, the wooden sheds with a bed and a shower. I did treat myself to a few nights in those. I'm not as hardcore. That's going to be a seven-night trip, out on the trail for seven nights. I treated myself to a little log cabin here and there. 

WELLS: Daniel, that's amazing. Chris, three days, seven days, I couldn't imagine being out in a tent for that long myself. What advice would you give to those thinking of planning an adventure on this scale? Where can folks get started? 

WILSON: I'd tell you have the thought, decide where you want to go and literally just make it happen. Put the feelers out, speak to friends, family. Put a post up on Facebook like Chris said, Facebook, social media is massive, far stretching. I'd say just do it. Literally do it. The first thing would be, where do you want to go? What do you want to do? Make sure yourselves comfortable. You get yourself either a TrailRider, which Chris uses, or adapt your own chair which I've done, and just do it. The first challenge, especially for this hiking thing and going up the mountains, there's not much out there that you can buy in the shops and things like that. You've got able-bodied equipment. For your own chair, making sure it's comfortable, and then just do it. Literally, just go and do it. 

LAYNE: Yes, I agree, Daniel. When there's a will there's a way. Go research. There's so much out there for adaptive anything. Not just hiking. Biking. You can do any sport in a wheelchair. I swim a lot at the rec center. A lot of our parks here in Colorado have the track chair, and you can reserve for free the track chair and go to a handful of parks and more and more and more are getting them here. To go hiking in a track chair, which is a really cool sit down big track, it's got the big tracks, so it can go over boulders and rocks and up trails and down trails. Do your research. It's up to you to be your own advocate and find out what's out there and what's available in your community. 

That's how I got started. I just look and say, "Hey," or ask people and network. Our community of persons with disabilities is a big community, but it's a small one at the same time when you look around. We're such a cohesive and strong community together. You got to look within your own area. If it doesn't have it, maybe think about starting something, get it going. That's advocacy work. 

WELLS: I totally agree with you, Chris. You've both navigated some decidedly difficult trails that most people would consider not wheelchair accessible. While it is not possible for every mountain pass or long distance trail to be paved and leveled, can you tell us about any accessible trails you enjoy and what can the disability and hiking communities do to work together to create more disability-welcoming outdoor spaces? Chris, we'll start with you. 

LAYNE: Great. That's a wonderful question. I have a lot of lakes around me to get out and enjoy. I bike, too, so I'll use a hand cycle to go around these reservoirs that it's not just hiking on the trails. They have concrete pavement but just to get out and enjoy outdoors adventure. If there is not a gravel or something that is accommodating, talk to the parks and recreation services. That's what they're there for. I just advocate for not only me but everybody else that wants to do this. If I can't get on a trail for some reason, there's an obstacle or the gravel's just too many potholes from all the snow and rain, I'm going to speak up. We're a voice for each other. 

That's what advocacy work is, is to change something not only for me because if I can't do it that means everybody else in a wheelchair can't do it either. It takes one change, one voice, one loud voice to get in touch with the right people to bring awareness that, "Hey, this is a problem." Because If you don't bring awareness, they don't know most of the times from the perspective of a wheelchair user. Bring that awareness up and then a lot of times, guess what, things get done. That's where my advocacy is, for me and everybody else, Daniel, and all the people that I know using wheelchairs and walkers and canes. It doesn't matter what we're using. It's for the better of all of us that have a disability. 

WELLS: Thank you, Chris. Daniel, same questions for you as well. 

WILSON: Yes, I couldn't have put it any better than what Chris said. Actually, a lot of it's awareness that if you don't speak up and you don't inform the relevant authorities or the people that are running the facilities or the parks or anything like that, then some of the times they simply just don't know. If they don't hear about it, and they don't get told often enough, it's not really on their radar to rectify or to try and fix. Definitely speak up, voice how you feel because they are enthusiastic. 

What I've come across with my local park, and I play a lot of wheelchair tennis as well, and I sell with the SailAbility that once they're aware of an issue that needs to be fixed or just slightly rectified that they jump at the chance, and they're all too willing to help once they know how to help. 

If they don't know how to help, then nothing can be done. If you can tell them, "It would be a lot easier if there's an extra ramp," or, "The ramp's a little wider or more of a runoff from this ramp," then they're quite willing to change. They're quite willing to adapt and fix some potential issues that they might have just from being aware of it. I think exactly what Chris said to speak up, we are one voice. We're a small community, as Chris says, but they're enthusiastic. The people that get out and do these activities like myself, Chris included, we want to do more, and we want everybody else to experience it and with an absolute passion. I want to take all of my wheelchair friends and do everything that I've done against their will. 

Even if they don't want to, I'm like, "Just try it. Just come with me and try it." I've been playing wheelchair tennis for, say, six years and that's one of the sports I didn't think that I'd even want to play. I had a free afternoon, so I went for taster session, and now it's one that I actually play three times a week, and it stuck, and it was a bit unexpected. I found that out just because I tried it. I'd say try everything you can, voice your opinions and ask people for help because a lot of them want to help. They just don't know how.

SIGMOND: Well, Chris and Daniel, thank you so much, for joining us. 

WILSON: You're welcome. Thank you for having us. 

LAYNE: Yes. Thank you so much for listening and great questions and being a part of this. 

WELLS: That was our conversation with Chris Layne and Daniel Wilson, two avid hikers who use wheelchairs. Chris joined us from Colorado, and Daniel joined us from England. We recorded this interview in March. Just this week, Daniel successfully completed the world famous West Highland Way trail in Scotland. He’s the first person in a wheelchair known to have completed this historic trail. Daniel, we send you our congratulations.  

[Music]

WELLS: And that does it for the show. Disability Rap is produced and edited by Carl Sigmond and Courtney Williams. You can go to our website, disabilityrap.org, to listen to past shows, read transcripts, and subscribe to the Disability Rap Podcast. You can also subscribe to our podcast by searching Disability Rap on any of the major podcast platforms. We are brought to you by KVMR in partnership with FREED, and we're distributed by PRX, the Public Radio Exchange. I'm Lindsey Wells with Carl Sigmond for another edition of Disability Rap.