Embodied Inclusion with Andrew Golibersuch

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LINDSEY WELLS, HOST: From KVMR and in partnership with FREED, this is Disability Rap.   

ANDREW GOLIBERSUCH: The idea that I could dance in a way where it didn’t matter how it looked was completely mind blowing and eye opening.  

WELLS: Today, Andrew Golibersuch on bringing communities together through Embodied Inclusion. 

GOLIBERSUCH: To go into a community where it was like ‘nah man, just dance however the heck you want, move your body in whatever way feels good’ not only was like, oh this is a completely way of viewing dance, but also like ‘move my body however, the way it feels good?’ Like what does that even mean!?! 

WELLS: That’s all coming up on Disability Rap. Stay tuned!   

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CARL SIGMOND, HOST: Welcome to Disability Rap. I'm Carl Sigmond with Lindsey Wells. 

WELLS: As people with disabilities, we get messages all the time that we are inferior or somehow “less than” our non-disabled peers. According to our guest, Andrew Golibersuch, these messages and beliefs can build up inside of us and lead to challenging relationships within our own bodies. Andrew believes that one way to dismantle ableism in our communities and in the world is to begin by truly holding space for all the parts of ourselves, and particularly for the parts of ourselves that we shame or blame. By holding space for these parts within ourselves, Andrew believes we can transform that acceptance outward, first to other individuals and then to our communities and society as a whole.   

Andrew has built a series of workshops in which he guides groups through various exercises to deepen awareness of these parts of ourselves, first individually and then in groups. He calls this work Embodied Inclusion, and he’s here today on Disability Rap to tell us more. Andrew is a disability activist, community builder, artist, dancer, mental health counselor and art therapist based in western Massachusetts. Born with Cerebral Palsy, he has been working to rehabilitate his relationship to his body and mind throughout his life.   

SIGMOND: Well, Andrew, welcome to Disability Rap. It's great to have you with us. And before we begin, I just want to note that you and I know each other from the New England dance community, and you actually invited me to support you in leading some of these Embodied Inclusion workshops in Massachusetts and New York. 

I'm really excited to have you on and talk about this important work. Can you pick up where Lindsey left off? What is Embodied Inclusion? Who are the workshops targeted for, and what do you hope people get out of the experience? 

GOLIBERSUCH: Well, in short, it's a series of workshops where we try to get in touch with the parts of ourselves that maybe don't feel truly welcome and learn more how to fully welcome them and how to accept and love those various parts of ourselves. And then doing that with other people, then once there's a good foundation of doing that in pairs, then in groups. Then all of that kind of learning that happened in those very experiential oriented exercises, so things that aren't just discussion based, right? Things that are actually, we are doing a thing in our bodies in order to gain knowledge that way, you know, actually have lived learned experiences. Which we can then discuss as a group, and in the long run, figure out how to take those things that we're learning from those direct experiences, and apply them to our communities in order to make structures that allow these processes to happen inherently.  

Because in my experience, as someone with a disability and who has felt othered for a variety of reasons throughout my life, there's the systems for creating spaces that are truly, truly welcoming for a whole variety of difference, just aren't adequate, or maybe even aren't there at all. You know, I think there's, there's a, you know, my, the story that I have is a lot of people kind of go around, giving sort of this top down almost authoritarian lecture style, like, ‘here are the things that you can do as a community to make your community better’. And I don't see that as like a particularly like super beneficial or helpful way of doing things. I would prefer if the people in the community actually have the learning. And like, come up like, actually generate ideas through experience.  

In the first few iterations of this workshop series, I was really just working with the dance community specifically. But I started to realize that there's a real hunger and need for this type of work beyond just the dance community. And in the last six months or so, I've started to bring it to other spaces beyond the dance community. And honestly, that's where I'm, at this point, actually even more excited to you know, bring it to the community organizations, the businesses, the universities, the, you know, classrooms, schools, where this type of work could potentially be really, really impactful. 

SIGMOND: Thank you so much, Andrew. Can you give us some examples of parts of ourselves? What do you mean by that? And then please give us some examples of the exercises you do with groups and talk about what those evoke in people. 

GOLIBERSUCH: What I talked about parts of ourselves, it can be a pretty wide range of things, you know, can be things like for me, oftentimes, it is my physical parts of my legs, right? I have cerebral palsy in the lower half of my body. And that is a particular part of my body that I have a challenging relationship with. So it could be something physical. It could also be more of an invisible type of disability, where someone who maybe has chronic pain, or a neuro divergence of some sort, ADHD, autism, a variety of other neuro divergences.  

But it can also be an emotional part of you. Maybe it's like your inner five year old, or your inner parents. Or for those of people who might be familiar with like Internal Family Systems, right, where we have sort of internalized versions of all these different people from our lives. And it could also be, you know, just a feeling, you know, whether that is a feeling of sadness, or grief or anger, or something that we lock out or push away. So yeah, I guess, again, to recap, it can be a physical body part, it can be like mental, emotional, or intellectual piece, it can be like, an internalized part of our identity that we have some sort of struggle with. It doesn't even have to be necessarily a struggle, it can just be something that maybe doesn't feel totally welcome, either in ourselves or in the spaces that we frequent.  

The foundational sort of initial exercise that I tend to do with people is to sort of drop into in like a meditative state and an experiential way, to get in touch with a part that maybe doesn't feel totally welcome. So one of those various things that I just mentioned. And sit with that part in silence, and in sort of an individual moment of connection with that part. And to engage with that in a dialogue, maybe in some movement, maybe in stillness. But basically, to invite that part of the self to lead in some way, right?  

These are often parts of ourselves that if they show up at all, it's in a very back seat, in the corner kind of way. It can be so illuminating to ask that part of ourselves, like, what do you need? What do you want, and like, can you lead in some sort of action. Again, that can be a movement series of movements, or some form of dialogue.  

What I'm hoping that type of thing evokes and often does, is not only a deeper connection with self, and feeling a more integrated way of being with ourselves. But I'm also hoping that that increases one's awareness of not only the types of things that make people feel unwelcome in a space, but also the types of things that make people feel welcome in a space, right? That through this dialogue with self, we get a better sense of like, ‘oh, what do I need? What does this part of me need to feel welcome and accepted and loved?’  

And well, you know, once we've done that for a good amount of time, and sort of had the chance to decompress and discuss that, and the learnings that come out of that, then we do it with another person. Right? At sort of whatever comfort level, those pairs of people are comfortable with, right? Because like, yeah, we can do that work individually in a vacuum. And it's probably not that hard to just do it by ourselves. But then to do that with another person, that can be vulnerable and scary. But it can level up that learning so much if we’re doing it with another human. Because not only are we exposing that vulnerable part - exposing is maybe not the right word - we are inviting that vulnerable part of ourselves to be fully seen by another human. We are also taking the time, attention and care to fully see that a similar part in another human.  

And having that same sort of dialogue, whether it be through movement, or words, where those pieces of ourselves are leading the way in this dyadic way can bring even more insight around how those parts can feel truly welcome and accepted. You know, and then expands up from there from there into a group of people. How do you do that within a group. 

WELLS: Your disability story? How has your CP affected you physically, mentally and socially? 

GOLIBERSUCH: I knew from a very early age that I was different. I was definitely other and outside of the norm from maybe five years old. Five was when I had my first major surgery and know I was in a wheelchair for six months as a five-year-old in school. Definitely experienced a whole lot of bullying as a young person, you know, just generally feeling unwelcome in pretty much almost all the spaces that I ever went into as a young person.  

You know, at the same time, though, I was like a happy kid and generally healthy, and you know, had a good group of friends, you know, social outsider friends. So had that level of support, where I can sort of move through those, those traumatic times. But that stuff stuck with me in a big way. Right, the level of confidence that I had, as a, you know, early 20-something and the belief in myself to truly achieve what I wanted to achieve. I felt like I could achieve academically, but pretty much anything else felt, I don't know, like, not totally possible. And I had a really poor relationship with my body really was touch averse, scared to do anything movement oriented with other people.  

And then found the dance community, and really started to push some of those edges and rehabilitate my relationship with my body, primarily through dance- ecstatic dance, contact improv. You know, the last, I would say 10 to 15 years has been a rewriting of the story. You know, I think, up until maybe 26/27, I was essentially in denial that I had a disability, right? I have relatively mild cerebral palsy in the sense that, you know, I can walk around and do most things without too much trouble, other than maybe ride a bike and rock climb and things like that. I had in sort of this internalized ableism that I was not disabled, I was fine. I had no disability, obviously, that was underneath causing me a lot of pain and stress and problems.  

The day that I got a handicap placard for my car was the day that I like, truly accepted that I had a disability and accepted that I had different needs than other people. And oh, man, was that a healing moment for me! Something I'm still healing, the fact that I have needs that are different than the majority of humans is something that I still struggle with. But you know, that's kind of what this whole Embodied Inclusion work where it all comes to a head is like, all of this disability story has made me feel disconnected and othered and separate from other people. And now I'm flipping that on its head. And it's like, okay, how can I use this to not only feel like the most confident empowered version of myself, but how can I use that to create more connection and to affect really positive change in the world? 

SIGMOND: Great, and I want to dive a bit deeper with you and talk some more about having a disability in the dance community. I know for me it's been so eye opening and empowering to explore and grow aspects of myself within dance and specifically Contact Improvisation. So, can you talk more about what that's been like for you? What you have learned and how you have grown. 

GOLIBERSUCH: Yeah, absolutely, so, it was about maybe 11 or 12 years ago that I discovered ecstatic dance. The idea that I could dance in a way where didn't matter how it looked, was completely mind blowing and eye opening. Because before this, all of my experience dancing, were like middle school and high school dances. Where, you know, for the most part, people are either doing some kind of slow dance back and forth - and, you know, at that point in my life balance was an issue. Or the like grinding, which is like, even more challenging for me balance wise. And like that was, that was what dance was right? Or you were like, you know, doing really choreographed you know, spectacular dances that I felt like could never do.  

So, to go into a community where it was like, ‘nah, man, just dance however the heck you want. Move your body in whatever way feels good.’ Not only was like, ‘oh, this is completely way of viewing dance’, but also like, ‘move my body, however, the way it feels good?!?’ Like, what does that even mean? Like, I never feel good in my body. Like, my being in my body, I feel bad like this is, this is why I do things that you know, allow me to be completely outside of my body. Because, you know, I, up until that point in my life, being in my body just add negative connotations, negative feelings, pain, etc. 

So that was the big first step for me was like, oh, what does it even mean, to move my body in a way that feels good. And that was a long process, that took a long time to figure out what, what that even felt like, what that meant to be moving my body in a way that felt good. But also to let go of the fear of judgment of other people, that took a really long time as well. Or I always was really self conscious about like, the way that I sit, or the way that I walk, right, my gait, or my, my legs kind of come in quite a bit. You know, when I'm dancing, I had the story like, oh, it's so obvious that I have cerebral palsy, the way that I'm dancing and like, and I'm embarrassed by that. And the more that I did ecstatic dance, the more that I realized, like, oh, this is a community that really just wants people to feel good, and have fun and do whatever the heck they needed to want to do in order for that to happen. Which was just a phenomenal way of reprogramming those parts of my mind that had been basically said that like being in my body was inherently a bad thing.  

Contact improv brought a whole different element to the mix for me. Where, you know, since I grew up, my whole life really uncomfortable in my body, I was even more uncomfortable being in contact with other people's bodies, right? Any form of touch, I was very touch averse. Or that touch was basically like, it was like, family love hugs, which is great. You know, and that's the type of touch that I was comfortable with. Or it was like, romantic sexual touch, right? And the social programming that had been put into me, throughout my lifetime, like those were the those were like the two types of touch that were even remotely available to me. Although as someone with a disability, the romantic sexual touch also often felt very out of reach. And being in contact, in contact improv, where part of the whole thing is that ideally, there's not a story or a meeting attached, you're literally just playing with the physics, of being in contact with another person's body. Again, mind blowing, and eye opening.  

This is this was maybe like five years into already have been doing ecstatic dance. So it was a lot more comfortable being in my body and a lot more comfortable moving at that point. But again, was not very comfortable in being in contact with other people. The big thing, the really big thing that contact improv brought, for me personally, was the ability to really tease out the difference between intimacy, sensuality and sexuality. And having those three things really be distinct entities. Things that all three of those could happen simultaneously or two of those things could be happening simultaneously, but that they were truly three distinct things. And I think before I started doing contact improv, again, not only was I completely uncomfortable with touch, but my body would interpret any touch as sort of all three of those things simultaneously. Especially if they were people that I was attracted to in some way. And so, through doing this practice of contact improv, I really got to play with those three different things as being very distinct.  

And then, over time, I've become not only like super confident in my own body, and super confident in being in contact with other people's bodies, and really super confident with all three of those forms of connection, but I really deeply trust my intuition. In navigating not only touch, but in navigating those, you know, intimacy, sensuality, sexuality. You know, and I have a much deeper understanding of what forms of touch I like, what forms of touch I want, what forms of touch I need. How to ask for those things. How to give consent, how to ask for consent, and the whole fluid consent process. Yeah, and again, just overall, feeling just 1000 bazillion times more confident in my own body, both with myself and others. 

WELLS: Andrew, I was at a dance class, this weekend at the Rollettes in L.A. And as a woman with cerebral palsy, it was very intimidating. And I like how you said that you have to get past that in what you did to get past that very intimidating feeling. My question to you is, do you think as you get older, you'll continue your journey as a dancer and as an artist in this way? 

GOLIBERSUCH: Yes, absolutely. The dance community is my home base, it's where I feel the most connected and loved and accepted. And it's where I feel the most myself. The truest version of myself comes out on the dance floor. It's a self-selecting group of people that are just so loving and caring. So yes, it will absolutely be a big part of my journey going forward. And it's a really good, you know, cerebral palsy, as I'm sure you know, is, you know, got to stay active and got to stay moving and, and take care of myself so that it doesn't get - so I don't have more pain than I already have. It's a really fun motivating factor to, you know, stay up on my physical activity.  

That's not to say, though, that the dance community doesn't often have some pretty significant challenges. And a good amount of ableism here and there, that occasionally makes me want to just run away. And I think that's part of the reason why I'm so passionate about this work, is because I want to feel safe and welcome and accepted and loved in my own community. And sometimes I don't, and I want other people who are like me to also feel safe and welcomed and loved and accepted. Not only in the dance community, but in in any community that they want to be a part of. This work and the dance community are intimately interconnected for me, absolutely. 

WELLS: That was our conversation with the disability activist and community builder Andrew Golibersuch. You can find out more about his Embodied Inclusion workshop series at embodiedinclusion.com.  

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And that does it for the show. Disability Rap is produced and edited by Carl Sigmond and Courtney Williams. You can go to our website, disabilityrap.org, to listen to past shows, read transcripts, and subscribe to the Disability Rap podcast. You can also subscribe to our podcast by searching Disability Rap on any of the major podcast platforms. We are brought to you by KVMR in partnership with FREED, and we’re distributed by PRX, the Public Radio Exchange. I’m Lindsey Wells with Carl Sigmond for another edition of Disability Rap. 

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